
Liebe Besucher,
Liebe Devotees,
nach monatelanger intensiver und freudiger Arbeit an dieser Webseite zusammen mit unserer Webdesignerin bin ich sehr glücklich, dass nun alles soweit vollendet ist. Heute am 9.9.2016
ist zudem der Erscheinungstag von Shrimati Radharani, ein äußerst glücksverheißender Tag
für die Premiere unseres Forums und dieser Webseite als Ganzes.
Anstelle von Verhaltensregeln möchte ich einfach alle TeilnehmerInnen höflich darum bitten,
nett zueinander zu sein und auch bei Meinungsverschiedenheiten – die naturgemäß immer irgendwann bei Diskussionen auftreten werden – stets den guten Ton zu wahren.
Ich freue mich auf einen regen Austausch.
Euer Vedanta
Shraddha - Point of No Return
Zitat von Vedanta am 15. Januar 2017, 18:54 UhrTranscript from a class by HH Shri Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji Maharaja on Bhaktirasamrita-sindhu, Tape 12:
Shrila Rupa Gosvami explains that shraddha is not part of bhakti. Because if it was part of bhakti you could not execute bhakti without shraddha. But it is possible to perform bhakti without shraddha, as anyone can e.g. take the Name of Shri Bhagavan – and that is bhakti, namely shravanam. There are nine types of devotion which are described in shastra: shravanam, kirtanam vishnu, smaranam, pada sevanam, archanam, vandanam, sakhyam, atma nivedanam. And no mention of shraddha is made there. Therefore, shraddha is not part of bhakti. But Shri Rupa Gosvami says, it is the vishesham adhikari, i.e. the qualification of the person eligible to do it.
Just like if one is following the path of karma he needs the qualification of arthi (desire to do it), samarthi (ability to do it, e.g. some raw materials required, or being born in the proper varnashrama family having the proper samskaras) and vidvan (knowledge how to do it, and what will one gain out of it). This is needed to execute fruitive activities or karmas described in the Vedas. These three (the desire, the ability and the knowledge) are not part of the karma activies which he is about to perform, these are just the qualifications of the person who is going to do it. Even though he has them, he still may not do it. In the same way as arthi, samarthi and vidvan are not part of karma kanda activies but only the qualification to perform them, similarly shraddha is not part of bhakti.
Therefore, Krishna has said jata-shraddho, if somehow or other one attains shraddha then one should take to bhakti yoga. That means he has attained the proper eligibility or qualification.
jata-shraddho mat-kathasu nirvinnaḥ sarva-karmasu
veda duhkhatmakan kaman parityage ’py anishvarahtato bhajeta mam pritaḥ shraddhalur dridha-nishcayaḥ
jushamanash ca tan kaman duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayanHaving developed faith in topics about Me and being disgusted with all karmas, a devotee knows that all enjoyments are filled with misery. But he is unable to give them up. Still, with affection for Me, with faith and determination, he will continue worshiping Me, while at the same time partaking of those enjoyments which give rise to suffering and yet condemning them.
Shri Bhagavata Purana 11.20.27-28
Tato means "thereafter", i.e. when one has shraddha this is the beginning point. And there is no endpoint for it where one should stop. In case of karma there is a point where one should stop. A person who is following the path of karma should stop performing karma if he becomes dispassionate or if he develops shraddha. If he develops shraddha from that point onwards he should take to bhakti. But now after that, there is no stopping for him, there is no end. Bhakti will continue eternally from that point onwards. It has a beginning but no end. It is described that even atmaramas (persons fully satisfied within themselves) are performing bhakti:
suta uvaca
atmaramash ca munayo nirgrantha apy urukrame
kurvanty ahaitukim bhaktim ittham-bhuta-guno harihSuta said:
Some sages who are atmaramas, beyond the scriptures, material ego and rules, also practice unmotivated, pure bhakti to the master of pure bhakti, Krishna, since He possesses qualities attractive to even them.Shri Bhagavata Purana 1.7.10
They are also performing ahaituki bhakti. There is no endpoint of bhakti. All other processes have an endpoint. Jnana-marga also, once the practitioner attains Brahman realization, he does not perform any practice of jnana anymore. Same with yoga. But bhakti continues. Even after one has attained the siddha platform, the perfected stage. Tato is describing the beginning point from which one starts. This is to describe the great realm of bhakti. Bhakti has got a very wide range. Other paths have a very limited range. Only within their limited ranges they are executed, but bhakti – once one has shraddha – then it has got an unlimited field. It is also indicated that without bhakti even karma and jnana do not become perfect.
Whatever one desires, it comes from bhakti only. He has given the qualification of a person who can engage in ananya bhakti, and that qualification is shraddha, that‘s all is needed. Nothing else. If you have shraddha then you are qualified. Then He says one should worship Him, tato bhajeta. How one should worship? Shraddhalur vishvasan, one should be a man with firm belief, without any doubt. This is the most important thing, again he repeats the word shraddha here. And he is pritah which means that he is attached in his liking for bhakti. Shraddha means also liking. If you have shraddha in something you have some liking for it. He is pleased with or attached to it, and he is therefore dridha-nishcaya, absolutely firm in his determination.
What is the meaning of this dridha-nishcaya? Sadhana sadhya sadhuna adheya shaya bhangara hitasya ca [?], that he will never give up his practice of bhakti. This is his nishcaya:
Whether he is doing it properly or improperly,
whether he is making advancement or he is not making advancement,
whether he is able to concentrate his mind or not able to concentrate his mind,one thing he is firm about is:
"I am not going to try anything else, this is the process I will follow!"
Therefore Krishna says that jushamanash ca tan kaman duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan, i.e. even if he is engaging in sense pleasures because he is unable to give them up, still he will continue with bhakti.
He is not going to think that "I am unable to control my senses, therefore what use is there in performing bhakti? Let me stop bhakti for some time and experience …. ". Some people have this concept that "let me have embrace with maya for some time, and then I‘ll come back and take to devotion". So that is not shraddha, that is not faith and that is not determination. These words Krishna is speaking just to stress how the devotee even at this stage is determined. That means he is not going to fall down, i.e. he is never going to give up his devotion, at any cost. Jushamanash ca tan kaman, even while engaging in those sense pleasures, duhkhodarkamsh - he also criticizes them. He has disliking for them. Therefore he is also not praising those sense pleasures. Why? Because they are duhkhodarkam, they are the cause of misery. He knows this, because he has heard it from shastra and he has faith in shastra. Jushamanash ca tan kaman duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan … "later on, these things will give me misery". Therefore, he doesn‘t like them. This is the explanation of these two verses. These are very pertinent verses because they are actually explaining how people are in the beginning stage. They develop some shraddha and they take to devotion but they are unable to completely give up sense pleasure. Therefore Krishna says that from this point onwards one should take to devotion.
Earlier it was also said in the teachings of Navayogendra that anyone who has senses is qualified to perform bhakti. Actually, bhakti should be performed by everybody. But to perform ananya bhakti, shraddha is necessary. And that comes by mahat-sanga, by associating with great saintly persons, by hearing. One should never give it up at any point in one‘s life or at any cost or because of any allurement. Because if he has shraddha there is nothing which can entice or allure him, this is not possible. You can only give up when you have a better proposal. The devotee has this firm belief that there is nothing better. This is the meaning of shraddha.
If you study shastra from beginning to end and analyze, then there is only one thing that is described and that is vedaish ca sarvair aham eva vedya [BG 15.15], vasudeva-para veda [SB 1.2.28-29]… They are all talking about Krishna, which means devotion to Krishna. That is the only abhidheya [the process or what is to be done], and the only prayojana [ultimate goal] is to attain love for Krishna. This is the firm belief of the devotee. And this will carry him through all difficulties. Difficulties will come, they are bound to come in this material world. No one can avoid them here, this is a place of difficulties. But this faith is his strength which will take him through all problems.
Question: Babaji Maharaja, can you please define what is sense gratification according to bhakti?
Answer: Anything which is not needed in your devotion. If you have to eat food, you eat because you have to survive. Anything which is not necessary for you and your devotional life and which you may just want because you have a liking for it.
Question: But the mind can justify anything …
Answer: So at least try to justify it [laughing in the audience]! But if your mind cannot even justify it … then that is certainly sense pleasure [loud laughing in the audience] and must be criticized [laughing everybody].
Question: So if one can justify …
Answer: Well, if your mind can justify then who can do what? That‘s fine. The problem here is that this devotee‘s mind is not able to justify it. That‘s why it says garhayan, which means criticism or disliking. That means he is not able to accomodate in his mind that "what I am doing is proper" rather he feels that it is not proper. This is the definition of sense gratification given here. But if you are justifying it and you are happy with it, go ahead [laughing in the audience]! But justify it and really be satisfied with it! Not that you justify it only for others but inside you are feeling bad. You see, here is no cheating with one‘s one self. Justifying because others are criticizing you, but inside yourself you are feeling that it is wrong. That is cheating. In other words, within yourself you should not feel inhibited or have some discomfort, or a feeling of guilt. If you have a feeling of guilt, then that‘s what Krishna is talking about here.
Question: Do the devotees become purified through this feeling of guilt?
Answer: It depends. If he has a feeling of guilt and then he goes for it and he is not paying attention to the feeling of guilt, then he will not make progress. That‘s why Krishna specifically says duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan, i.e. that he is doing both, jushamanash ca tan kaman is one part of it, he is enjoying. The other part is duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan, he is disliking it. He is not happy with it. And why? Because he knows that he is going to suffer from this. So he has to put stress on this part.
Transcript from a class by HH Shri Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji Maharaja on Bhaktirasamrita-sindhu, Tape 12:
Shrila Rupa Gosvami explains that shraddha is not part of bhakti. Because if it was part of bhakti you could not execute bhakti without shraddha. But it is possible to perform bhakti without shraddha, as anyone can e.g. take the Name of Shri Bhagavan – and that is bhakti, namely shravanam. There are nine types of devotion which are described in shastra: shravanam, kirtanam vishnu, smaranam, pada sevanam, archanam, vandanam, sakhyam, atma nivedanam. And no mention of shraddha is made there. Therefore, shraddha is not part of bhakti. But Shri Rupa Gosvami says, it is the vishesham adhikari, i.e. the qualification of the person eligible to do it.
Just like if one is following the path of karma he needs the qualification of arthi (desire to do it), samarthi (ability to do it, e.g. some raw materials required, or being born in the proper varnashrama family having the proper samskaras) and vidvan (knowledge how to do it, and what will one gain out of it). This is needed to execute fruitive activities or karmas described in the Vedas. These three (the desire, the ability and the knowledge) are not part of the karma activies which he is about to perform, these are just the qualifications of the person who is going to do it. Even though he has them, he still may not do it. In the same way as arthi, samarthi and vidvan are not part of karma kanda activies but only the qualification to perform them, similarly shraddha is not part of bhakti.
Therefore, Krishna has said jata-shraddho, if somehow or other one attains shraddha then one should take to bhakti yoga. That means he has attained the proper eligibility or qualification.
jata-shraddho mat-kathasu nirvinnaḥ sarva-karmasu
veda duhkhatmakan kaman parityage ’py anishvarah
tato bhajeta mam pritaḥ shraddhalur dridha-nishcayaḥ
jushamanash ca tan kaman duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan
Having developed faith in topics about Me and being disgusted with all karmas, a devotee knows that all enjoyments are filled with misery. But he is unable to give them up. Still, with affection for Me, with faith and determination, he will continue worshiping Me, while at the same time partaking of those enjoyments which give rise to suffering and yet condemning them.
Shri Bhagavata Purana 11.20.27-28
Tato means "thereafter", i.e. when one has shraddha this is the beginning point. And there is no endpoint for it where one should stop. In case of karma there is a point where one should stop. A person who is following the path of karma should stop performing karma if he becomes dispassionate or if he develops shraddha. If he develops shraddha from that point onwards he should take to bhakti. But now after that, there is no stopping for him, there is no end. Bhakti will continue eternally from that point onwards. It has a beginning but no end. It is described that even atmaramas (persons fully satisfied within themselves) are performing bhakti:
suta uvaca
atmaramash ca munayo nirgrantha apy urukrame
kurvanty ahaitukim bhaktim ittham-bhuta-guno harih
Suta said:
Some sages who are atmaramas, beyond the scriptures, material ego and rules, also practice unmotivated, pure bhakti to the master of pure bhakti, Krishna, since He possesses qualities attractive to even them.
Shri Bhagavata Purana 1.7.10
They are also performing ahaituki bhakti. There is no endpoint of bhakti. All other processes have an endpoint. Jnana-marga also, once the practitioner attains Brahman realization, he does not perform any practice of jnana anymore. Same with yoga. But bhakti continues. Even after one has attained the siddha platform, the perfected stage. Tato is describing the beginning point from which one starts. This is to describe the great realm of bhakti. Bhakti has got a very wide range. Other paths have a very limited range. Only within their limited ranges they are executed, but bhakti – once one has shraddha – then it has got an unlimited field. It is also indicated that without bhakti even karma and jnana do not become perfect.
Whatever one desires, it comes from bhakti only. He has given the qualification of a person who can engage in ananya bhakti, and that qualification is shraddha, that‘s all is needed. Nothing else. If you have shraddha then you are qualified. Then He says one should worship Him, tato bhajeta. How one should worship? Shraddhalur vishvasan, one should be a man with firm belief, without any doubt. This is the most important thing, again he repeats the word shraddha here. And he is pritah which means that he is attached in his liking for bhakti. Shraddha means also liking. If you have shraddha in something you have some liking for it. He is pleased with or attached to it, and he is therefore dridha-nishcaya, absolutely firm in his determination.
What is the meaning of this dridha-nishcaya? Sadhana sadhya sadhuna adheya shaya bhangara hitasya ca [?], that he will never give up his practice of bhakti. This is his nishcaya:
Whether he is doing it properly or improperly,
whether he is making advancement or he is not making advancement,
whether he is able to concentrate his mind or not able to concentrate his mind,
one thing he is firm about is:
"I am not going to try anything else, this is the process I will follow!"
Therefore Krishna says that jushamanash ca tan kaman duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan, i.e. even if he is engaging in sense pleasures because he is unable to give them up, still he will continue with bhakti.
He is not going to think that "I am unable to control my senses, therefore what use is there in performing bhakti? Let me stop bhakti for some time and experience …. ". Some people have this concept that "let me have embrace with maya for some time, and then I‘ll come back and take to devotion". So that is not shraddha, that is not faith and that is not determination. These words Krishna is speaking just to stress how the devotee even at this stage is determined. That means he is not going to fall down, i.e. he is never going to give up his devotion, at any cost. Jushamanash ca tan kaman, even while engaging in those sense pleasures, duhkhodarkamsh - he also criticizes them. He has disliking for them. Therefore he is also not praising those sense pleasures. Why? Because they are duhkhodarkam, they are the cause of misery. He knows this, because he has heard it from shastra and he has faith in shastra. Jushamanash ca tan kaman duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan … "later on, these things will give me misery". Therefore, he doesn‘t like them. This is the explanation of these two verses. These are very pertinent verses because they are actually explaining how people are in the beginning stage. They develop some shraddha and they take to devotion but they are unable to completely give up sense pleasure. Therefore Krishna says that from this point onwards one should take to devotion.
Earlier it was also said in the teachings of Navayogendra that anyone who has senses is qualified to perform bhakti. Actually, bhakti should be performed by everybody. But to perform ananya bhakti, shraddha is necessary. And that comes by mahat-sanga, by associating with great saintly persons, by hearing. One should never give it up at any point in one‘s life or at any cost or because of any allurement. Because if he has shraddha there is nothing which can entice or allure him, this is not possible. You can only give up when you have a better proposal. The devotee has this firm belief that there is nothing better. This is the meaning of shraddha.
If you study shastra from beginning to end and analyze, then there is only one thing that is described and that is vedaish ca sarvair aham eva vedya [BG 15.15], vasudeva-para veda [SB 1.2.28-29]… They are all talking about Krishna, which means devotion to Krishna. That is the only abhidheya [the process or what is to be done], and the only prayojana [ultimate goal] is to attain love for Krishna. This is the firm belief of the devotee. And this will carry him through all difficulties. Difficulties will come, they are bound to come in this material world. No one can avoid them here, this is a place of difficulties. But this faith is his strength which will take him through all problems.
Question: Babaji Maharaja, can you please define what is sense gratification according to bhakti?
Answer: Anything which is not needed in your devotion. If you have to eat food, you eat because you have to survive. Anything which is not necessary for you and your devotional life and which you may just want because you have a liking for it.
Question: But the mind can justify anything …
Answer: So at least try to justify it [laughing in the audience]! But if your mind cannot even justify it … then that is certainly sense pleasure [loud laughing in the audience] and must be criticized [laughing everybody].
Question: So if one can justify …
Answer: Well, if your mind can justify then who can do what? That‘s fine. The problem here is that this devotee‘s mind is not able to justify it. That‘s why it says garhayan, which means criticism or disliking. That means he is not able to accomodate in his mind that "what I am doing is proper" rather he feels that it is not proper. This is the definition of sense gratification given here. But if you are justifying it and you are happy with it, go ahead [laughing in the audience]! But justify it and really be satisfied with it! Not that you justify it only for others but inside you are feeling bad. You see, here is no cheating with one‘s one self. Justifying because others are criticizing you, but inside yourself you are feeling that it is wrong. That is cheating. In other words, within yourself you should not feel inhibited or have some discomfort, or a feeling of guilt. If you have a feeling of guilt, then that‘s what Krishna is talking about here.
Question: Do the devotees become purified through this feeling of guilt?
Answer: It depends. If he has a feeling of guilt and then he goes for it and he is not paying attention to the feeling of guilt, then he will not make progress. That‘s why Krishna specifically says duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan, i.e. that he is doing both, jushamanash ca tan kaman is one part of it, he is enjoying. The other part is duhkhodarkamsh ca garhayan, he is disliking it. He is not happy with it. And why? Because he knows that he is going to suffer from this. So he has to put stress on this part.